Curse

AngeliqueSynner · Aug 21, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

I've grown very fond of my monk as of late.
And not for the reason of farming either.
I was tromping through some PvE [Roughly from Tahnnakai to House Zu Heltzer.] the other day with a few friends and a few people we met in outposts on the way when I realized I have very few worthwhile elites.
I have 9 elites spread across all the monk attributes, but I really I only use 2 of them depending on the situation: Word of Healing and Restore Condition.
I was wondering if there was a better [Or more effieicent elite] for the particular bar I'm using, or if I should change my bar completely.
It's for general PvE. Haven't ventured too deeply into hard mode. Most of the time I'm just helping friends so they don't have to rely on Mhenlo, Jamei, Tai, Lina, Karl, Gita, Kihm and/or Alesia [Whom are about as smart as a brick most of the time...] The heros are indeed better, but the more smart heal/prot you bring, the less smart damage you can bring. xD

[-My Bar As Follows-]

Healing 10 + 1 + 1
Protection 11
Divine Favor 10 + 1

Jamei's Gaze [Started in Factions. Screw Heal Other. :P]/Shield of Absorption/Word of Healing
Patient Spirit
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Restore Condition/Dismiss Condition
Cure Hex
Great Dwarf Armor/Weapon/Selfless Spirit [Depending on my mood.]
Rebirth

Would anything fit better in there?
Is there anything currently that I use that I shouldn't?
I keep Selfless in at all times, I tend to drop Cure Hex for GDA/GDW when there is other hex removal in the party. [Usually GDW. Cause I like telling people to sit down via an attacker in the party.]
Limits are: I lack most of the Vanguard skills and Norn skills, I have no Asuran skills. I barely beat the Consulate Docks in Nightfall, I have yet to go past Lion's Arch in Prophecies, my sunspear rank is crap, and I ABHOR Healer's Boon. The upside, I have 5 gold Z-coins, all the skill unlock packs, and I'm willing to travel.

Skye Marin · Aug 21, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

With the new Selfless Spirit, I'm a fan of Divine Boon and Life Sheath, with some other appropriate skills peppered in.

If you're not a fan of Divine Boon, Jamei's Gaze is outclassed by a handful of other heals, like Patient Spirit and Words of Comfort.

IronSheik · Aug 21, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Drop a res, good teams don't make monk res.
Drop the hex removal, hexes in pve get reapplied instantly.
Only decent condition removal in PvE is maybe RC/Life sheath, otherwise don't bring any.

What Now · Aug 21, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Drop the weapon for a glyph to shake off aegis and get a free prot spirit on whoever aggroed at the start of battle IMO.

As for elites the only other elites that are even remotely usable is healers boon and that's mostly for strong barpushing and only excels really if you need to be pumping out heal party.

Skills like glimmer of light/healing light while they can add up to more healing/less energy over time end up requiring so much more casts that the rest just fade away.

I've been playing a monk for years and to be honest if you want variety you'll probably have to sacrifice at least some viability.

I've done entire campaigns with just protective spirit, reversal of fortune, and zealous benediction with empty slots on my bar so to an extent there's a lot of wiggle room since most skills are just there to help and work off the main ones.

Basically you're fine how you are, I know the same WoH/RC bar gets boring after several hours a day months on end but you can get away with an offering of blood divine boon monk if you want

never bad to try something new.

paranon · Aug 21, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I think you are doing a lot better than you give yourself credit for, there isn't really much to do to improve that bar, I'm gonna concentrate on the WoH side of things, because as you progress through the game, you will find that it is more effective than RC.

Jamei's Gaze - There are way more effective heals than this, personally i think that 2 should be enough, this could probably be swapped out for a nice prot (Shielding hands, Shield of Absorption, Seed of Life)
Word of Healing
Patient Spirit
Aegis
Protective Spirit
Restore Condition/Dismiss Condition - Do you really need condition/hex removal? i usually swap them out for something nicer (ebon battle standard of courage maybe?)
Cure Hex
Great Dwarf Armor/Weapon/Selfless Spirit - Definitely Selfless Spirit, I have never really experimented with Great Dwarf Armor, so couldn't really say, but you will need some energy management on that build for sure.
Rebirth - There is nothing inherently wrong with a monk bringing a res, but usually i just put a couple of hard resses on my heroes and don't take one myself, there are lots of things you could put in this slot, just experiment with different things and see what works for you really.

Well, there are my suggestions, if you need any further advice then feel free to PM my ingame (IGN = Divine Paranon)

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

As for elites the only other elites that are even remotely usable is healers boon and that's mostly for strong barpushing and only excels really if you need to be pumping out heal party.

I've been playing a monk for years.

o rly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

With the new Selfless Spirit, I'm a fan of Divine Boon and Life Sheath, with some other appropriate skills peppered in.

mmh, I still prefer UA over divine boon, it may be elite but it heals for more, doesn't steal your energy and is a free, immediate res all in one, i'm still not really convinced that the new divine boon is anything special..

Awex Mafyews · Aug 21, 2009, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Mo/E
Unyielding aura, Aegis, Divine healing, heavens delight, glyph of lesser energy, protective spirit, seed of life and shield of absorption.

Works a treat. I'm hardly the best monk in the world when I rarely use mine but that build works just great for me especially in nooby pugs where everyone dies and you need to res people quickly.

cerick · Aug 21, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Well Synner, to be honest your build is just fine. But I can see where you would run out of energy fast on certain combinations you have listed. Most of what the others have said isn’t incorrect, but I’ll add my spin. First off in NM PVE 90% of all missions can be accomplished just fine with the builds you use now. The “magic” information you looking for basically only comes from in-game experience. I’ll give you some things I know to be true.

The “perfect” build doesn’t exist.

You have to consider:
A. the exact mission – NM or HM
Mobs – melee or ranged, the skills they use
Map – open or closed, can pinch points be exploited, are there objects to block mobs LOS (line of sight)
Environmental effects – energy degen, interruptions, etc.
B. your team – PUG /Alliance / Guild
Your first concern is the other healer. What skills is he running? You can tell a lot from the build someone uses. Pick skills to compliment each other. For example he has Aegis and you know there is serious melee hate coming. Plan out an Aegis chain; for example he would cast first, and then you always follow. If he takes a condition removal, you take hex removal.
Resurrecting – who’s going to do it and when. A good team takes care of this and leaves the monks out of it. Otherwise, sure take Rebirth like you have expecting to be the last man standing.
Team composition – balanced, melee heavy, caster heavy Are they bringing self protection/defense? For example, if you get a typical sin in your group sporting two attack chains and Shadow Refuge, sometimes skills like Spirit Bond are the only way to keep them alive. But if they do have protection, red bar pusher build might be all you need.

Ok, now for some tangible advice. I’m boiling this way down, because there are a hundred “ya but” situations. Always bring Protective Spirit, even if you’re sporting a red bar pusher build. Protection builds own if you can anticipate most of the agro/damage, H/H can’t really run them so on live the human monks. Reduce your own agro so you can do your job. Increase your armor, HP as much as practicable. And don’t use wands or staffs; I personally use spears and a variety of focus items.

Good luck.

paranon · Aug 22, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

Don’t use wands or staffs.

explain.
40/40 Heal set and Prot staff ftw?

zelgadissan · Aug 22, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

Plan out an Aegis chain

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

Always bring Protective Spirit

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

And don’t use wands or staffs

wut?

I'm all about carrying a defensive set, but not using a 40/40 for your spell is dumb, and not using a 20% enchanting staff for things like what I quoted is even dumber and just lazy. Don't be lazy on a monk, if you want to be lazy hop on your warrior and C-space.

IronSheik · Aug 23, 2009, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I will agree always bring PS...in HM it's one of the best spells.

But not bringing a staff when not under pressure is stupid.

cerick · Aug 24, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

wut?

I'm all about carrying a defensive set, but not using a 40/40 for your spell is dumb, and not using a 20% enchanting staff for things like what I quoted is even dumber and just lazy. Don't be lazy on a monk, if you want to be lazy hop on your warrior and C-space.

#1 He uses a hybrid build, like most of us monks. So I guess he should carry 2 20/20 sets, 2 staffs one healing and another protection with 20% enchanting. And then a defensive set one for the prominent elemental damage type, and one for melee. Ok lets go pro sauce, lets get all the shields to support this four +10 elemental and three +10 physical. Let’s add in a high and low energy set. Is anyone keeping track of all this? You know there have been a hundred posts on weapon sets; I upped your moto babble by three fold. Bring it.

#2 Spears can have the 20% enchanting mod. Not that I might happen to have a couple.

#3 No, I’m not going to explain an Aegis chain to you again.

#4 I’m definitely not going to explain why most good monks have opted not to use wands/staves in most PVE. Look it up kid.

#5 I’ve said this a dozen times, but for the ppl in the CHEAP seats I’ll say it again. I’m not going to write a book every post. And don’t quote me out of context, please.

Swahnee · Aug 24, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

#1 He uses a hybrid build, like most of us monks. So I guess he should carry 2 20/20 sets, 2 staffs one healing and another protection with 20% enchanting. And then a defensive set one for the prominent elemental damage type, and one for melee. Ok lets go pro sauce, lets get all the shields to support this four +10 elemental and three +10 physical. Let’s add in a high and low energy set. Is anyone keeping track of all this? You know there have been a hundred posts on weapon sets; I upped your moto babble by three fold. Bring it.

#2 Spears can have the 20% enchanting mod. Not that I might happen to have a couple.

#3 No, I’m not going to explain an Aegis chain to you again.

#4 I’m definitely not going to explain why most good monks have opted not to use wands/staves in most PVE. Look it up kid.

#5 I’ve said this a dozen times, but for the ppl in the CHEAP seats I’ll say it again. I’m not going to write a book every post. And don’t quote me out of context, please.

I really don't see any drawback in swapping to a wand/staff set..

And the choice isn't between having only 1 weapon set, and having billions of weapon sets. You have 4 slots available, use it. You don't need 2 40/40 sets, but only one set, according to what skills you need to spam. If you use WoH/Cure Hex, then a 40/40 healing is what you need. Then use an enchanting set (yes, it could be a spear/focus, but also a staff), an high energy set and a defensive set. Stop.

And what's wrong with staves? If most good monks have opted not to use wands/staves, then the guy who wrote the sticky in this forum is incompetent? This is not the first time i read the guru, but you are the first person (that i remember) who says that using wands/staff is bad. Could you post some link to other threads related to this subject please? Probably i missed them.

Yichi · Aug 24, 2009, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

#1 He uses a hybrid build, like most of us monks. So I guess he should carry 2 20/20 sets, 2 staffs one healing and another protection with 20% enchanting. And then a defensive set one for the prominent elemental damage type, and one for melee. Ok lets go pro sauce, lets get all the shields to support this four +10 elemental and three +10 physical. Let’s add in a high and low energy set. Is anyone keeping track of all this? You know there have been a hundred posts on weapon sets; I upped your moto babble by three fold. Bring it.

Most hybrid builds will only really gain the benefit fro ma 40/40 heal set as almost al lthe spells cast in the prot line already have a fast enough recharge/cast time, so the 40/40 prot set in this build can be dropped. Sure you could drop the High energy set and equip a 40/40 prot set if you really chose too, but there is no clear advantage to running a 40/40 prot set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

#2 Spears can have the 20% enchanting mod. Not that I might happen to have a couple.

Any monk running a 20% enchanting on a spear is only running it because they are too lazy to weapon swap. A 20% enchanting mod is far less superior than a +5 armor or +30 health for your defensive set, and if yo uare running a spear/offhand, well than you're just crippling yourself or are lazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

#3 No, I’m not going to explain an Aegis chain to you again.

You don't have too, but aegis chains greatly benefit from the 40/20/20 staffs more than the 20% enchanting spear. Your other prots will benefit from it more too, thus again the need not to equip a 40/40 prot set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerick

#4 I’m definitely not going to explain why most good monks have opted not to use wands/staves in most PVE. Look it up kid.

Define good. most PvE monks that only stay in a defensive set or use a shitty spear/offhand combo are average at best. A good monk will weapon swap and will carry everything they need to effectively weapon swap/shield swap/counter whatever they run across.

It's clear that when the O.P. requested advice from the "Professionals", your resume fell quite a bit short I'm afraid...

glacialphoenix · Aug 24, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

#1 He uses a hybrid build, like most of us monks. So I guess he should carry 2 20/20 sets, 2 staffs one healing and another protection with 20% enchanting. And then a defensive set one for the prominent elemental damage type, and one for melee. Ok lets go pro sauce, lets get all the shields to support this four +10 elemental and three +10 physical. Let’s add in a high and low energy set. Is anyone keeping track of all this? You know there have been a hundred posts on weapon sets; I upped your moto babble by three fold. Bring it.

Kept track of it, got it, except for the 40/40 prot and the healing staff. I weapon swap, too, thank you. You can stay in your defensive set, SWAP to the staff to cast Aegis/Prot Spirit/what have you, and swap back. The buttons are fairly conveniently located, or you can change how they're assigned to your liking. What's the problem with bringing more than one set?

I agree on the Prot Spirit, though. That spell saves lives in HM, especially if your party is full of little squishies and you're up against elementalists.

Jaigoda · Aug 25, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

The original build looks good, but there's a few small things: Jamei's Gaze/Heal Other is bad, simply because of the high energy cost. If you need another heal, grab Dwayna's Kiss. It's half the energy, and often heals for almost as much. But it you're using WoH, you won't need to worry about it. And RC is only really good when its heal would become useful, where there are big huge stacks of conditions on everybody so you can get like a 300hp heal (mandragor in EotN come to mind). And as others have said, Rebirth isn't really necessary, and you could replace it with something like Guardian or SoA. Also, Great Dwarf Armor isn't that great, and GDW is going to put a lot of stress on energy, and if you really want to provide melee support you're better off going smite. You're probably best off going with Selfless and being able to spam everything more.

Also, your attribute spread is wierd. Generally if you're running WoH you'll want 12+1+1 heal, and then either 8+1 - 10+1 in divine - prot, or 8 - 10+1 in prot - divine. This is because the breakpoints of prot are mostly at 8, 11, and 14. See what breakpoints you prefer, and adjust your DF attribute accordingly.

For weapons, you basically have three choices: two easy ones, and one more expensive option that is more optimal. The first is getting a spear and shield, and that's it. You'd probably want an enchanting mod on the spear as well. This is alright, but you won't have a very large energy pool, and you won't be able to take advantage of the half cast/recharge mods. The second is getting an enchanting staff, which will give you better casting mods and more energy, but leave you with less defense. The third and much more optimal choice, is getting 3-4 sets. The two mentioned before (a defensive set with as much +health as possible, and a protection staff of enchanting), and then a 40/40 healing set, and if you really want to you can get a high energy set (which uses two 15/-1 inscriptions for tons of energy). Each of the caster weapons you swap to, then switch back to the defense set afterward.

But overall, it actually sounds like you know what you're doing, so you shouldn't have to worry much. However, if you want to play something different you could always go with a boon-prot build, with RC, Life Sheath, ZB, or Aura of Faith as the elite.

paranon · Aug 26, 2009, 05:07 PM // 17:07

"#4 I’m definitely not going to explain why most good monks have opted not to use wands/staves in most PVE."

The only reason why that would happen would be lazyness, 40/20/20 prot staffs and 40/40 healing sets have always been superior for casting than spear/shield or spear/focus sets, the reason people use these sets is because they are too lazy to switch sets to cast. I don't see why you have this view..